| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
| Sazzle
Black Bloc
| | Joined: 12 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 219 | | : | | Location: The depths of selly oak |
Items |
|
 Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| higuy wrote: | | pmqs wrote: | | closing the meeting is a f**k disgrace at a voluntary-attendance event |
err no - sometimes its the right thing to do
take the meetin two GCs ago when the last motion was on display boards. This affected societies, association, standing societies and more. And there were 29 people left in the room. Such an issue - something that needs engagement from everyone and all the above - cannot satisfactorily be decided.
We need to dispense with a lot of the procedure - and if i may say so - the indi chairs need to feel assured enough to know they're chairing the meeting - within reason their in charge. Full credit for Charlton telling Brown to shut up when he tried to star the whole agenda. Sometimes we stick to the procedure so rigidly... I know you will all think im trying to undermine democracy... but we waste to so much time! |
You are undermining democracy since in a democracy everyone gets there chance to say something. If you dont like it tough - but hes got a right to say it - just shutup and listen it would be pointless otherwise having the whole process.
I am so sick of everyone being crappy towards the conservative boys in all fairness it may not be because of the political agenda, it may be because you dont like them but if you actually gave them a chance to speak they speak a lot of sense.
Also off the top of my head telling someone to Shutup in GC is very much intimidation and nothing seems to happen about it ! If he wants to star the whole thing let him - from recollection there is the discretion of the chair and the motion that James Passed - though i cant remember if it actually passed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Enlightened_Bystander
Black Bloc
| | Joined: 16 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 100 | | : | |
Items |
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
On the closing of the meeting and exec, it should be noted that one of the vote came down to the president's casting vote, and he chose to continue.
And on the prophecy thing, It's unlikely as I was Enlightened Bystander long before I considered coming to Brum, let alone know about the indi chairs...
_________________
Peter Lloyd
MEng Software Engineering, 4th Year
CS Guild Councillor 2005-2007
Independent Chair May-July 2007
Wargames Chair 2004-06
General Commitee Functionary- 2004-07 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| tomsk
Indymedia Hound
| | Joined: 05 Mar 2007 | | Posts: 19 | | : | | Location: Birmingham |
Items |
|
| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Peter, add independent chair on your signature - you deserved it mate! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| higuy
Black Bloc
| | Joined: 02 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 301 | | : | |
Items |
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sazzle wrote: |
You are undermining democracy since in a democracy everyone gets there chance to say something. |
woah massive misrepresentation... I'm not saying we shouldn't allow someone to speak, i'm just saying there will be death by procedure before the end of the year.
A chair ensures a meeting runs smoothly.
Procedures outline how the meeting should run.
In some cases the procedures may not work and the chair has freedom to work around them.
If someone is unhappy they can use a procedural motion to challenge the chair's ruling.
Then a vote of GC decided.
As much as procedures exist to protect democracy they can also be used to undermine it. What ensures democracy runs smoothly is the participation of individuals.
| Sazzle wrote: |
the motion that James Passed - though i cant remember if it actually passed. |
That motion did not pass - even though it was actually sound.
_________________
Tom Marley
History II |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| naivehottie
Black Bloc
| | Joined: 01 Apr 2006 | | Posts: 385 | | : | |
Items |
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| higuy wrote: |
That motion did not pass - even though it was actually sound. |
Yeah Gary went on a completely irrelevent rant saying how it would impinge on trans students rights or something ridiculous, when all it would do is stop people from starring everything and I made clear it couldn't be used to make a motion fall |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Sazzle
Black Bloc
| | Joined: 12 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 219 | | : | | Location: The depths of selly oak |
Items |
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| higuy wrote: | | Sazzle wrote: |
You are undermining democracy since in a democracy everyone gets there chance to say something. |
woah massive misrepresentation... I'm not saying we shouldn't allow someone to speak, i'm just saying there will be death by procedure before the end of the year.
A chair ensures a meeting runs smoothly.
Procedures outline how the meeting should run.
In some cases the procedures may not work and the chair has freedom to work around them.
If someone is unhappy they can use a procedural motion to challenge the chair's ruling.
Then a vote of GC decided.
As much as procedures exist to protect democracy they can also be used to undermine it. What ensures democracy runs smoothly is the participation of individuals.
| Sazzle wrote: |
the motion that James Passed - though i cant remember if it actually passed. |
That motion did not pass - even though it was actually sound. |
Well then if you want to play with that argument at what stage would you stop the procedure? You either stay with all or nothing coz you cant pick and choose which procedure to go with - if you dont like it bring a motion and solve the problem..... its not fair to say its too procedural its there for a reason and until someone has got rid of it you cant moan about other people using it. Its particularly noticeable that you moan about particular people using it - seems very undemocractic and unfair ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| higuy
Black Bloc
| | Joined: 02 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 301 | | : | |
Items |
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sazzle wrote: | | You either stay with all or nothing coz you cant pick and choose which procedure to go with - if you dont like it bring a motion and solve the problem..... |
The point i'm trying to make is it is the chair who decides when the procedure is getting in the way of the meeting running smoothly - not you or me!
Also we can only pass so many motions... Many unforseen things occur during a meeting and you need a strong chair who can deal with these things. I can't count the number of times this year something has happened and the indi chairs have looked at each other without a clue what to do. A strong chair can judge a meeting (has the person got a point or is it just time wasting?) and decide to press on, rather then spend 10 minutes looking through the consitution before they find the relevant part where it tells them the logical thing to do.
The procedure is overbearing, it wastes time, it pisses people off, it confuses new GCers and it does not protect democracy, i dont believe democracy is when half the people are sitting in the room without a clue what is going on! The indi chairs are there to make sure the meeting runs smoothly and remains democratic - i hope the new GCers will have the confidence to do that.
_________________
Tom Marley
History II |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| pmqs
Street Demonstrator
| | Joined: 09 Oct 2006 | | Posts: 78 | | : | | Location: Birmingham |
Items |
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
could be a bit of hypocracy there - arent you the one who proposed that for certain votes the names of everyone who votes will be written down? it failed of course
_________________
~Knowledge should be free~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Enlightened_Bystander
Black Bloc
| | Joined: 16 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 100 | | : | |
Items |
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pmqs wrote: | | could be a bit of hypocracy there - arent you the one who proposed that for certain votes the names of everyone who votes will be written down? it failed of course |
Err... It didn't fail. it was modified to ask for investigation of a way to keep councillors more accountable, which lead to Resources recently authorising the purchase of leapfrog voting devices to allow for electronic voting in GC.
_________________
Peter Lloyd
MEng Software Engineering, 4th Year
CS Guild Councillor 2005-2007
Independent Chair May-July 2007
Wargames Chair 2004-06
General Commitee Functionary- 2004-07 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Teapotboy
Black Bloc
 | | Joined: 05 Mar 2006 | | Posts: 691 | | : | | Location: Hamburg, Germany |
Items |
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| higuy wrote: | | The procedure is overbearing, it wastes time, it pisses people off, it confuses new GCers and it does not protect democracy, i dont believe democracy is when half the people are sitting in the room without a clue what is going on! The indi chairs are there to make sure the meeting runs smoothly and remains democratic - i hope the new GCers will have the confidence to do that. |
Completely agree... an hour and a half into the latest GC I got a text from a new GCer saying "I don't know what on earth's going on and I don't think anyone else does either". Hardly a glowing endorsement for the sovereign body etc. etc.
I can comment impartially on the chairing of GC cos I haven't seen it at all this year - the chairs do not need to cite a regulation every time they make a common-sense decision, trust that the majority of the room is behind you when some p*i*k is making a mess of the meeting... most of the time they will cast them out into the corridor if you give them the chance! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| francesn
Armchair Activist
| | Joined: 23 Apr 2007 | | Posts: 4 | | : | | Location: Birmingham |
Items |
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes but sometimes no-one knows what's going on....and then we have to halt the meeting and find out. I would rather do that than press on regardless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in
Log in to check your private messages
